Curse

Arkantos · Jan 05, 2009, 09:47 AM // 09:47

How is it possible to destroy a bad, unused skill?

Clarissa F · Jan 05, 2009, 10:01 AM // 10:01

We are getting a few ranger threads in Riverside. request a move to the Ranger class?

And yeah, there are MUCH better skills in BM

Aldric · Jan 05, 2009, 12:45 PM // 12:45

[Strike as One] I would say is the worst BM Elite to take both in its old form and the new . 10 additional damage for 5 attacks for you and your pet is pretty meh and the new version gives you a shadowstepping pet which you can use to inflict bleeding/crippling which i find, for pve, pretty feeble.

Alternatives?
[Enraged Lunge] Good for mashing if you have a few nice long recharge BM skills.Very nice damage
[Heal as One] Good for bar compression (assuming you want some self healing that is) though I prefer to stick with [Comfort Animal] as the only healing and leave me with my elite slot open

My 2 preferences are :-
[Rampage as One] Just sexy

run this alot on my R/P , usually with [Scavenger Strike] , add a few spear attacks and stuff blows up nicely.
[Ferocious Strike] Sometimes take this with [Never Rampage Alone][Predator's Pounce] rather than [Rampage as One][Scavenger Strike] in certain areas or if im just in the mood to switch things around a bit

in short [Strike as One] was shite and is now gimicky but still poo

Abedeus · Jan 05, 2009, 02:24 PM // 14:24

[Lacerate] is still worse.

Strike as One is fun when you can apply Cripple and Bleeding on a R/P spear ranger with one skill.

Or R/W (not hammer) that need a skill for kiting enemies.

But then again, Cripshot + Barbed Arrows/Apply Poison is better.

Amy Awien · Jan 05, 2009, 02:32 PM // 14:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

It would take probably 15-20 seconds for the old Strike as One to do as much damage as Enraged Lunge does every 5 seconds.

Your math is failing you, the old one added somthing like 2 x 5 x 10 on a 10 second recharge. Still not as good as ELb (80 on a 5 second recharge), but better then your version. EL does require 3 other recharging BM skills, meaning you'd have to devote most of your bar to it - or suffer it to be less efficient. SaO was 'good to go', but for it's simple effect of giving additional damage it was outclassed by various other skills.

Maybe if they'd increased it's damage / time ratio, or decreased damage and made attacks unblockable.

kvndoom · Jan 05, 2009, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

Your math is failing you, the old one added somthing like 2 x 5 x 10 on a 10 second recharge. Still not as good as ELb (80 on a 5 second recharge), but better then your version. EL does require 3 other recharging BM skills, meaning you'd have to devote most of your bar to it - or suffer it to be less efficient. SaO was 'good to go', but for it's simple effect of giving additional damage it was outclassed by various other skills.

Maybe if they'd increased it's damage / time ratio, or decreased damage and made attacks unblockable.

You do realize how slow pets attack, right? I'm not talking about the skill's recharge. I'm talking about factoring in attack speed of a ranger with any weapon without IAS, and attack speed of a pet without IAS. Unless you're facing something even more static and stupid than the target dummies in GToB, you and your pet are not both going to land 5 hits each in 10 seconds (I know Enraged is +80, but it almost always hits for 100 or more anyway). Unless of course, you have an IAS skill for your pet AND an IAS skill for yourself. And your "3 other recharging BM skills" is bunk, because unless you're using [heal as one], you are going to have [charm animal][comfort animal] on your bar anyway, which puts you 66% there.

You're dreaming if you think the old skill's DPS or spike ability was even close to Enraged's. Otherwise it wouldn't have gotten buffed as a "useless, unused" Elite.

t00115577 · Jan 05, 2009, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Strike as One is a joke, and it was a joke before.

After Lacerate it was, and still is, the worst BM elite.

Rampage as One and Heal as One > all BM elites by a long way.

PS.
And I lol'd so much I nearly fell off my chair at guy who said Expel Hexes was bad.

mcjohna12 · Jan 05, 2009, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by t00115577

Strike as One is a joke, and it was a joke before.

After Lacerate it was, and still is, the worst BM elite.

Rampage as One and Heal as One > all BM elites by a long way.

PS.
And I lol'd so much I nearly fell off my chair at guy who said Expel Hexes was bad.

Since when was Rampage as One considered "good"?
And no the old Strike As One was not considered a joke.
If you were actualy focused on making a damaging pet, there was no better skill. You can keep saying EL was better but it was FAR from it.

For example, EL (as I've already said) needs to to waste valuable mana in order to use its full potential. And after afew hits your out of mana completly. Meaning its not spammable at all.
When you put the old Strike As One into the equation, both you and your pet get +10 damage per hit and was easily spammable (only 5 mana). Along with Feral Agression, your pet attacks much faster to help provive much more damage in a shorter time period.

t00115577 · Jan 05, 2009, 04:16 PM // 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcjohna12

Since when was Rampage as One considered "good"?

Prepare to get abused for this sentance.

Now if you use scavengers strike to manage energy you can spam EL til next year and never run out of energy.

Picuso · Jan 05, 2009, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcjohna12

Since when was Rampage as One considered "good"?
And no the old Strike As One was not considered a joke.
If you were actualy focused on making a damaging pet, there was no better skill. You can keep saying EL was better but it was FAR from it.

Bunny Thumper says Hi.

If you were focused on making a damaging pet, you were using [Enraged Lunge] or [Ferocious Strike].

Try again.

mcjohna12 · Jan 05, 2009, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picuso

Bunny Thumper says Hi.

If you were focused on making a damaging pet, you were using [Enraged Lunge] or [Ferocious Strike].

Try again.

Um if you wanted low damage...yeah.
Its quite obvious none of you even tried using SoA.
Hell even without it, I could destroy anyone of you considering how weak of a build your all using at the moment.

Dmitri3 · Jan 05, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43

It was okay in PvE: Never Rampage Alone + Strike As One = one nice R/P

In PvP, it was crap. But then again, it was broken in all formats (didn't renew the count of attacks).

I didn't feel bad about the skill change... only about the fact that I spent time making a build around it a day before it was changed. Literally, I tested it once and then it got changed to this.

phan · Jan 05, 2009, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcjohna12

Since when was Rampage as One considered "good"?And no the old Strike As One was not considered a joke.
If you were actualy focused on making a damaging pet, there was no better skill. You can keep saying EL was better but it was FAR from it.

For example, EL (as I've already said) needs to to waste valuable mana in order to use its full potential. And after afew hits your out of mana completly. Meaning its not spammable at all.
When you put the old Strike As One into the equation, both you and your pet get +10 damage per hit and was easily spammable (only 5 mana). Along with Feral Agression, your pet attacks much faster to help provive much more damage in a shorter time period.

1 ; almost perma ias and iam yeah that must suck ! (also for your pet btw)
2 ; i think bleeding + poison or poison + burning outdamages this .
3 ; i l lulz'ed at mana
4 ; you trying to spike with a pet ?

el / rao / HaO is the way to go dude .. seriously ban this guy .. stupidity is a disease and it spreads fast .

mcjohna12 · Jan 05, 2009, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan

1 ; almost perma ias and iam yeah that must suck ! (also for your pet btw)
2 ; i think bleeding + poison or poison + burning outdamages this .
3 ; i l lulz'ed at mana
4 ; you trying to spike with a pet ?

el / rao / HaO is the way to go dude .. seriously ban this guy .. stupidity is a disease and it spreads fast .

1-It costs 25 mana, plus it takes up an Elite, yeah it sucks.
2-Not even close
3-If you don't waste mana you waste skill slots.
4-Yes I'm spiking with a pet, don't believe in it, scrim me Ill destroy you in a second.

Tyla · Jan 05, 2009, 05:32 PM // 17:32

It was terrible before, now it is fairly viable.

What the hell are you talking about?

Abedeus · Jan 05, 2009, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcjohna12

1-It costs 25 mana, plus it takes up an Elite, yeah it sucks.
2-Not even close
3-If you don't waste mana you waste skill slots.
4-Yes I'm spiking with a pet, don't believe in it, scrim me Ill destroy you in a second.

1. It costs 25 ENERGY, and you have Expertise to make it 12-13. I know no Elite or non-Elite skill that gives you and your pet 33% IAS, 25% IMS and can be kept up forever at 9-10 Beast Mastery, using a Zealous weapon and it's only downside is the cost. Not that big for a skilled Ranger, but if you proclaim blasphemies like this, you are obviously not a skilled player. I guess you call [Distracting Shot] or [Reversal of Fortune] bad skills too?

Not to mention RaO was nerfed two or three times because it was too powerful.

2. You fail. 20 damage per second > 10 damage if you hit, if pet hits and if you have 14 Beast Mastery. Because Burning + Poison is unprottable -11 degen capped at -10. And is as spammable as your old "nerfed" Strike as One. Burning Arrow + Apply Poison cost a bit more, but can be spammed (poison to few enemies), refreshes at every attack and BA deals additional damage.

3. He was laughing at your misconception about "Mana". It's called Energy. Pretty basic thing...

4. GAH. Because EVERYONE knows scrimmage is the only and the best way to show a skill is useful. Okay, you come with any warrior, I'll come as Flashing Blades Assassin and you are dead in 10 seconds. Paper > Rock > Scissors doesn't work everywhere.

payne · Jan 05, 2009, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcjohna12

1-It costs 25 mana, plus it takes up an Elite, yeah it sucks.
3-If you don't waste mana you waste skill slots.
4-Yes I'm spiking with a pet, don't believe in it, scrim me Ill destroy you in a second.

energy plz

4) my mesmer takes your challenge :P [signet of midnight] says hai

moko · Jan 05, 2009, 06:02 PM // 18:02

mcjohna12 is trying to argue with pets mostly. RaO is a TERRIBLE skill if you focus on the pet. the pet damage in all thumper builds is pretty terrible and not even worth mentioning. if people could run RaO without the pet, they'd do it.

so it becomes bad in his eyes.

the current Strike as One is FAR worse than the old one .. seriously, compare it? i've actually tried the old one, it was decent, you didn't need to pack a lot into Expertise, bring any weapon and deal some extra damage while buffing the pet's damage. there ARE other good pet attack skills besides Enraged Lunge that can hit for a lot, and with Strike as One's buff it was fairly ok.

thus, old Strike as One > new Strike as One.

though, i'm not really sure why you run into energy problems with Enraged Lunge?

the weakness of Enraged is that you had to dedicate half your bar to it & you ended up with no other attack skills to use. it was also fairly easy to take care of with hard prots..

Strike as One had neither of those disadvantages. you could actually try to pressure a bit & didn't rely on a single skill.

Ferocious is a joke, i really just hate that skill

so i dunno about you guys, you seem to be throwing random stuff out without even knowing what you're talking about.

to sum it up, in PvE i actually used Strike as One, and for the RA/TA/AB with pet (lul) i'd take Enraged as nobody would run the hard prot.

Picuso · Jan 05, 2009, 07:20 PM // 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcjohna12

Um if you wanted low damage...yeah.
Its quite obvious none of you even tried using SoA.
Hell even without it, I could destroy anyone of you considering how weak of a build your all using at the moment.

[Strike As [email protected]] = +8x5=+40 damage every 10 seconds.
[Enraged [email protected]] = +15x4 = +60 damage every 5 seconds (using Tiger's Fury, Encant Animal and Comfort Animal).

60/5 > 40/10.

Even using a Pure Beastmaster build, focusing damage on the pet (My Magrid uses a build like that), [Enraged Lunge] wins, hands down. You use some Shouts to make your pet even stronger, and just spam EL on recharge.

Pet doing 120 damage is FTW.

If they really "destroyed" your build, change it. It's not as hard.

P.S.:1vs1 is srs bsnss

moko · Jan 05, 2009, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picuso

[Strike As [email protected]] = +8x5=+40 damage every 10 seconds.
[Enraged [email protected]] = +15x4 = +60 damage every 5 seconds (using Tiger's Fury, Encant Animal and Comfort Animal).

60/5 > 40/10.

Even using a Pure Beastmaster build, focusing damage on the pet (My Magrid uses a build like that), [Enraged Lunge] wins, hands down. You use some Shouts to make your pet even stronger, and just spam EL on recharge.

Pet doing 120 damage is FTW.

If they really "destroyed" your build, change it. It's not as hard.

P.S.:1vs1 is srs bsnss

you can easily pre-cast Strike as One (running from mob to mob and the higher recharge really doesn't matter anymore), as well as combining it with other attack skills.

i swear i've had better results with Strike as One in PvE. :P